Waiting for "The Call"

“Honey, it’s always crap. Every book I write is crap. It’s my job to fix the crap afterwards,” according to Nora Roberts. Well, I've got it half right. Still working on the "fixing it" part. "Trust your characters to be complex enough and to have enough emotional baggage. Force them to make hard choices." Advice from Michelle Styles that might help!

The Sacred Sisterhood- and why I love it December 13, 2009

Filed under: Writing and Life — Autumn Macarthur @ 6:13 pm
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I am fortunate to be a member of a small online writer’s group. We’re a bunch of unpublished but working on it romance writers who got together on the I Hearts Presents blog after last year’s competitions (rejected, every single one of us!) to form a group to support each other, commiserate over our rejections, celebrate our successes, and read and critique each others work, so we could learn and grow and help each other reach our goal of publication.

We’d all discovered that no matter how supportive friends and family are, most of them just don’t get it. They don’t understand why a rejection letter would have us in hysterics, and a revision letter for a friend would have us dancing around the room. They don’t have a clue what we are talking about when we muse aloud about a character’s past and how that might impact the black moment, and when we start talking about our hero and heroine like they are real people. There are some things no-one, apart from other writers, really understand.

So we got talking on I Hearts after the last contest, and someone suggested forming a Google group so we could keep on talking.

We’re not really called the Sisterhood, but we’ve become such good friends over the last 14 months, we call each other sisters. We support each other like sisters, not just in good times but in bad times; not just with our writing ups and downs but with all the crap the real world can throw at us too. We’ve been through pregnancy, sick kids and pets, unemployed husbands, money worries, aging parents, day jobs from hell, illnesses and bereavements, plus the utter awfulness sometimes of keeping on doing what we have to day after day after day when it feels like nothing we do can make the dream come any closer.

We chat and encourage and laugh and cry and make bad jokes and rude jokes. Sometimes we even talk about writing.

We bounce our ideas off each other before we even start to write. Would this be believeable if she did that, and is this enough reason for him to behave like that? Character interviews are great fun, and the answers to questions put to the character by the group (everything from favourite music to favourite sexual position) turn up some revealing information.

We post our writing, and get feedback from people who will not just say a meaningless “That’s wonderful,” like friends and family, but will actually tell us what doesn’t work, what needs to be stronger, and how we might make it so. We get to learn how to look critically at a piece of writing, how to recognise what is good and what needs fixing, and how to communicate that. This has taught me more than anything. When I get an insight into how a friend can improve her work, that’s a gift I can apply to my writing too.

We share our rejection letters, cry together over them, and sometimes some of us get to realise what they thought were rejection letters were actually revision letters. We’ve journeyed with Maisey through the revision process, seeing her shape and reshape her story to bring out all the potential her editor saw was there. We all got to dance and sing when she got her Call.

I am joyfully proud to be part of this group, proud that one of our group has just sold to Presents and another is now the Modern Heat winner for the Harlequin Writing competition. Maisey’s book, His Virgin Acquisition, to be released in August 2010, is amazing. Gill’s winning chapter, which will be posted soon on I Hearts is brilliant, a worthy winner.

I’m not saying the group made these things happen. Maisey and Gill are fabulous writers. They would have achieved success no matter what. But maybe the support and encouragement helped it happen sooner. Helped people keep going when things were tough and discouraging and it could have been tempting to give in. I know it’s helped me immensely. I hope and pray I’ll see good news for all the group members in the coming year, because each of these women is talented and deserving of success. I love every one of them.

What makes the sisterhood sacred and lifts it above the mundane is that we do truly love, encourage, and support each other. We mourn each others losses, we celebrate each others victories. We see the truth in each other, sometimes when the person themselves can’t see it.

The group is sacred because they keep me honest. When I am kidding myself about something, they tell me. When I think something I’ve written is good and it’s not, they tell me. When I think something I’ve written is bad, and it’s not, they tell me. When I’m having one of those days, weeks, months and all I want to do is to stop writing, shut down the blog, delete all my writing files, disappear off the forums, they stop me. No point doing it, they know where I am. They’ll track me down and make me write.

Groups like ours don’t work for everyone. Some writers prefer to have a single critique partner. Some prefer a larger group. Some know they work best alone. Everyone is different.

But for writers who feel in need of more support as they work to improve their writing, the option of setting up a similar group or finding a writing buddy is open to anyone. This links to a post I wrote last year about finding a writing group or buddy. There are more suggestions in the comments there.

Some key things to bear in mind-

  • Treat it like dating, with a trial period of “getting to know you” first. Make sure everyone has the same expectations- how much social chat is there going to be, how much writing talk? How many times are you going to meet? How often will you give each other work to read, and how soon should a critique be given? How will you deal with things if it doesn’t work out?
  • Make sure that your CP understands and is sympathetic to the line you are targeting. Ideally a writer targeting the same line, at least someone who has read it widely and recently, and who enjoys it. You don’t want to someone constantly wanting you to take out the sex, put in more sex: change your hero to be more Alpha or less Alpha; cut the vampire out of your paranormal because everyone knows vampires don’t really exist, put a vampire into your Sweet Romance because vamps are hot right now; or whatever suits their particular bias.
  • Be clear on what you want from a critique and that you both understand that. You don’t want a CP just picking you up on a spelling mistake when you want to know if the hero’s motivation works; you might not want her telling you the hero’s motivation doesn’t work if all you wanted was a last minute typo check. Last minute typo checks are good, but not the best use of a CP, in my opinion!
  • Understand that not everyone knows how to give good critique. Ms Nice Girl will just give bland feedback, because she doesn’t want to cause offense, everything is “Fine” or “Nice” or “I enjoyed it”. Ms Nasty has watched Simon Cowell too much and thinks critique means ripping everything to shreds, with no positives at all. Good critique is balanced. It recognises what strengths are there, and builds from them. If there are things that in the reader’s opinion could be strengthened it says so, with some suggestions for improvement. Not “write it like this” suggestions, changing the wording, but things like “would it work better if he did that there?” Or just stating how it was for you and leaving it for the writer to bounce her own answers off you- “I wasn’t clear why he did that there.” Sometimes Ms Nice and Ms Nasty can be coaxed to give better critique by asking them open ended questions. “What were three things you liked about my hero? And what were three things I could have changed?”
  • Know that sometimes people don’t know how to recieve critique. Sometimes even a considered balanced critique isn’t what someone wants to hear. Ms Nice often wants to hear just the same in return. This makes it difficult to get any benefit from her as a CP, or to help her improve her writing in return.
  • Even the best critique in the world might not be right for your writing. Sometimes a CP will make a suggestion and you instinctively know that’s not right, your character wouldn’t do that, whatever. That’s good! You don’t have to take the CPs advice. and you just learned something about your character. A good CP will accept that you won’t always follow through on everything they suggest.
  • Be ready for the reality that not everyone in a group or partnership will develop at the same rate or find their place at the same time. How will you deal with it if you get published when your critique partner is still struggling? How will you manage if your CP gets her Call and it feels like you are being left behind?

It’s not the answer for everyone, and nothing replaces writing as the best of all ways to learn. Groups or partnerships can also be time consuming, eating into our writing time. Only you can decide if this is what works for you. I know it does for me.

For anyone looking for a group, SK started something over at I Heart Presents. There’s now a thread there listing new critique groups, including a group that is open to any romance writer- Romance Angels Network


38 Responses to “The Sacred Sisterhood- and why I love it”

  1. Jackie Says:

    Great post, Jane. As a new ‘sister’ I feel EXTREMELY fortunate to be the newbie. I do consider it an honour to have been asked.

    Having a good CP is, IMHO, very important for a writer. The experience of someone reading your work, someone who may not love it as much as you do, someone who may not hate it as much as you do, is hugely valuable. If you are submitting to a publisher that means you want people to read your work – starting with a CP is not only a good lesson in giving up your precious babies to someone else’s opinion, but also really, really good preparation for receiving criticism. Because learning to take criticism is a HUGE part of the writing process. If you can’t take it, then bear in mind that editors are a whole lot harsher than CPs. They won’t go easy on you because you’re having a down day. And they will rip your ms to shreds if they think they can get a better story out of it.

    Cheerful huh? Anyway, best to start with someone you can argue with right? 😉

  2. Steph Says:

    You’re so right. It’s one of the most important experiences in writing life – finding a good critique group which pulls you along, nudges you on and makes you laugh when needed. Much more effective than getting the hubby to read your work … 😉

  3. waitingforthecall Says:

    That is such a good point Jackie and one I overlooked. But such a biggie. It’s scary sending our babies out into the world. A CP is a small step to start that story on it’s bigger journey. Editors do not mince their words. Even a positive revision letter can feel like being put through the grinder. And that was just my CPs getting theirs, God knows how I’ll react when my turn comes.

  4. Some terrific advice here and your group sounds fab. I’ve been floundering in the dark for years, only recently finding a couple of romance-orientated individuals to read and comment on my wip – and what a difference it’s made.

  5. waitingforthecall Says:

    LOL Steph, I’m just imagining trying to have my husband read my work. He does not “get” fiction. Just the facts, ma’am, all the way with him. I did send him my Presents contest entry, and all he said was “It’s well written, I guess, but I don’t understand it.” He gets worriedwhen I start telling him what my characters are thinking, just in case I’m not actually creative, but starting on a first psychotic episode (he used to be a psych nurse). That’s when CPs are essential, just to have someone else who understands.

  6. waitingforthecall Says:

    It does help, I think. Not for everyone, but I know it’s been hugely helpful for me. Bouncing ideas, seeing how other writers develop their characters and plots, talking out internal conflicts to see if they’d really work. I’ve learned so much more this way than if I’d spent the last year writing in isolation, or even with the help of the fab blogs and forums like eHarl and I Heart.

  7. Anonymous Says:

    Hi. I have been following your and some other aspiring writers’ wonderful blogs for a long time, but I have been shy about commenting anywhere. However, like you, I entered the competition 2009 (my first time though) and didn’t win but am staying very positive and upbeat. This post of yours has been truly inspiring, especially since I have been trying to look online for a long time for a positive romance writers’ critique group.

    I hope you do not mind, but I have been wondering if there might be an opening for a new member in your group. If there is, I was wondering if there was a possibility you and others in the group might consider adding me as a new member. If not, that’s all right also. I just thought I’d ask.

    Thanks, by the way, for sharing your journey as an unpublished writer. Just know that when you get The Call one day, I will be one of the people cheering you. 🙂


  8. waitingforthecall Says:

    SK, thanks so much for coming out of lurkdom and posting. I hope you get some good feedback from the competition!
    The group isn’t taking on any new members now, I’m afraid. Not because we want to keep it a private club, but because there is an optimum size for a group like this, and that’s six or seven, eight at the most and then only if the group isn’t very active. We already feel guilty if we can’t keep up with all the posts, or critique every file that gets uploaded. It’s not unusual because we are spread across time zones to wake up and find eighty or ninety new emails in my inbox just from the group, and five new writing files uploaded for critiquing. It can be a lot to keep up with and fun though it is, also eats into everyone’s precious writing time, and makes us feel bad if we don’t read everything.
    The other reason is that we have been working together as a group for over a year now, and we almost have our own code language, our own shorthand. Jackie joined us recently,and even though she knew us all and had been in close contact with most of us on other forums, Twitter and via email, she’s feeling a bit left out I think. It’s like a family, or old friends. Have you ever had that experience of being in a group where everyone knows everyone else apart from you? Someone says something like “Tea’s made”, and everyone falls round laughing. Then just when the room has calmed down, someone else says “Bananas,” and everyone cracks up laughing again. And they try to explain the joke but it’s just not funny because “You had to be there.” It’s horrible. And that’s just what it would be like for someone else coming in.

    Okay, I’m not sure how many people will be interested but I am going to start a new page on the blog for anyone looking for a CP or writing group. I’m sure there are a lot of writers out there who want a CP or small group to connect with. Will you be brave enough to come back and start it off once I build the page, SK? I’m gonna be like Kevin Costner on Field of Dreams- If I build it, they will come!

  9. Good on ya for speaking loud and proud about your gorgeous crit group!! You guys rock and Maisey and Gill especially deserve the lime light at this time. I think the bitterness on ihearts at the moment is VERY upsetting. Wouldn’t be surprised if the editors decide never to run another contest!

  10. waitingforthecall Says:

    Oh, I hope not! But the way things are it wouldn’t be at all surprising.

    I can understand people being disappointed. I’m going to cry for hours if I don’t get a full request, then drown myself in a vat of rose wine.

    What I don’t understand is the attitude like it’s their only chance ever to get their work before an editor and it’s been stolen from them. Hello? We can all sub whenever we want.

    You know that and I know that but somehow some people seem to have forgotten that in the rush of emotion. Which is sad.

  11. Jackie Says:

    Lol Jane!! It’s always a little awkward joining a group where everyone knows each other so well, but you guys are doing the best job of making me feel welcome!
    I’ll get into the swing of it soon. Hopefully it’s not too weird for you guys having me around either. 😉

  12. Robyn Says:

    Great post Jane!

    The Sisterhood has been fabulous for ALL of us, and is just going from strength to strength. Everyone’s writing has improved since we joined forces, but it’s the rock solid support and our trust and care and belief in each other that really count. Who wouldn’t want a CP (or a whole bunch) like that?

    The lows aren’t as low when you share them, but the highs are better than ever… and there’s more of them!


  13. waitingforthecall Says:

    LOL, not at all, Jackie, great to have you. You were always an honorary sister anyway. So did I get it wrong about how it must feel coming in?

  14. waitingforthecall Says:

    That’s exactly it. It’s not just the critique (though no-one give critique like you), it’s the whole package. And as you say, more to celebrate!

  15. Jackie Says:

    That’s nice of you to say. And maybe you’re right just a tad re the coming in to the group. 😉 But that will pass. Some of it is up to me too. I felt a bit like that when I started posting on Subcare at eHarlequin but now that place feels like a second home!

  16. Anonymous Says:

    I appreciate your generosity and your willingness to do this. I appreciate your blog also.

    As far as another critique group goes, for now, I guess I’ll go solo until I find a critique group like yours or see if a critique group like yours is formed by this years’ contestants. 🙂

    Thanks for being nice about this though, and I understand. 🙂

    I wish you and the group the best.


  17. Maisey Says:

    Awww…Jane, I could cry. It’s so cool how it happened with us. Too bad people aren’t bantering and chatting after the comp like we were. It’s what brought us all together! And you’re all great friends, even if we haven’t ‘met’. 🙂

  18. Robyn Says:

    LOL Jane, I’m going to get scared to critique anything if you keeping raising the bar 🙂 Thank you for being so kind, (so often) but I think the way we all work together is what makes all the difference. Honesty that you can rely on is a rare thing!


  19. Robyn Says:

    So weird, Maisey. I didn’t see your post before, but you’re so right. Hopefully once the dust settles and discussion turns to the winning chapters there’ll be more positive comments exchanged between “posters” on ihearts. Chatting there certainly worked for all of us!!


  20. What a great post! For what it’s worth I think your sisterhood rocks, and obviously works brilliantly for you all. You shouldn’t have been put in the position of needing to defend it, but you have done so really eloquently. Good on you!

    Does Jilly have a blog? I can’t spot one, so would love it if you could pass on my huge Congratulations please, can’t wait to read her chapter. Thanks xx

  21. Eileen Says:

    What a charming post Jane! And you obviously have a great community to bolster your efforts (and look! they all follow your blog too!) 🙂

    Don’t buy that rose wine just yet! I got summarily rejected from the contest today. The email actually said “we don’t recommend you continue with this project, instead start something new” — oh. LOL. Anyway, if there’s no email in your box today I am forbidding you to even think about drowning in rose wine!

    I haven’t checked out the Presents blog and this negativity that you guys mentioned, but I’m on my way there in a minute. It saddens me when people don’t see a contest for what it is: an opportunity. So much of our lives is made up of opportunities and yet we like to see these possibilities as failures instead of hope.

  22. Eileen Says:

    ah … I didn’t read all of what’s flying around on the Presents blog, but I seriously doubt I need to (and don’t want to spend that much time reading such negative drivel).

    I get the impression that the most dissatisfied people are those who believe that publication will solve all their problems, let them stop struggling and give them self-confidence. But that’s not how it works. It is exactly like young women (or old women for that matter) who think that getting married will solve all their problems. It doesn’t. You still take into the marriage all the problems you had before and you develop new ones. It’s just like publication. Just because the “fairy tale” ends with The Call doesn’t mean that HEA is guaranteed. Published authors still have to work for their HEA same as the rest of us.

  23. Maisey Says:

    How wonderfully said, Eileen. The marriage/publication analogy was just perfect!

    And no, our dearest Jilly doesn’t have a blog. She has the day job from hell instead and she spends all of her spare time writing. It is a shame she doesn’t though, since she’s absolutely hysterical and any blog done by Jilly would be…well, so thoroughly done it wouldn’t be able to walk straight.

  24. waitingforthecall Says:

    Okay, sorry I haven’t kept up with answering- a 12 hour stretch at the salt mine with no time to access the blog!

    Sorry Joanne, Jilly doesn’t have a blog yet. AS Maisey says, if she did it would be a total crack-up. Once she gets her Call and a couple of books under her belt and can give up boot camp- light blue touch paper and stand clear.

    Spot on, E. There are plenty enough successful published writers who are brutally honest about their self-doubt and struggles to have no illusions there. And just because someone is published elsewhere doesn’t mean they don’t aspire to be pubbed with Harlequin either. There seemed to be a belief that taking published authors out of the contest would magically secure the posters feedback on their entry.

    Well, I’m not literally drowning in rose. I am drinking a glass or two though. I got the same form rejection. *sigh*

    SK, I understand that. Stay tuned to what happens at I Hearts- we just kept hanging around the contest thread after everyone else had moved on.

  25. Ferdous Says:

    Jane, great blog as usual!

    I’m not at the stage where I want a CP but now I know where to come if I need help looking or starting one. Maybe I’ll be ready next year. At the moment my main priorty is to get on with writing.

    Also popped to the Ihearts site as I haven’t been there since Saturday. Cannot believe the bitterness and the ugliness. Kudos to you for not resorting to their level. I wonder how they write ‘romance’ with all that bile in them?!! Its such a shame though, it’s not enough that the writing community doesn’t take romance writer’s seriously without all this catfight/bile and sheer meaness of spirit. This is more ammunition to them now.

    All the best now and keep those lovely blogs coming.


  26. waitingforthecall Says:

    People spoke of out pain and disappointment, and a fair bit or drowning of sorrows.
    I learned a lesson- next time, post once then get the hell out!

  27. waitingforthecall Says:

    SK, I saw that you have started a group on I Hearts. Well done you and I hope it works brilliantly! Best of luck in your writing future!

  28. Jilly (Gill C) Says:

    Jane, what a brilliant and insightful post – though coming from you, I wouldn’t have expected anything less 🙂

    And can I just say to Eileen that this standard e-mail that people have been getting sounds very much like the one that all of we sisters got last year, and look what’s happened since then! First and foremost, Maisey has sold to Presents – not that any of us doubted that she would 🙂 – and I received a call from Joanne Grant that turned me into a jibbering wreck (some might say, no change there then).

    Guess what I’m saying – and I know this is damn near impossible to do – is don’t take it personally, as some kind of blank condemnation of your writing. It may well feel that way at the moment but trust me, it isn’t. It’s something within it that didn’t quite work for them, be it the premise, the set-up, the characters, or whatever. The next one you write, or the one after that, or the one after that, could just be THE one that catches their eye and that’s why you must never give up. It’s also where a CP or group can undoubtedly come to your rescue. Seeing things that you simply can’t because – hey, you’ve written the damn thing, which in turn means you’re just too close to it to be ruthlessly objective, however hard you may try to be. But then of course, I AM a little biased here when it comes to this sisterhood of ours 🙂

    And Joanne, thanks so much and huge congrats to you as well! Really looking forward to reading your chapter too – a little bird beginning with R tells me it’s actually brilliant …..

    Jilly x

  29. waitingforthecall Says:

    Good to see you!
    The standard rejection email was, I’m 99.9% sure, word for word on last year’s.
    I think when you and Maisey post your call stories on I Hearts, it will give a truckload of encouragement to anyone who knows Presents or Modern Heat are the lines for them but got an R this time.
    The moral of the story is- don’t give up one rejection away from acceptance. You may decide like me that much as you love to read the stories, this isn’t the line for you; you may know that it’s the only line you could ever write for. Just keep writing, whatever you do!
    Fabulous writers can get rejected, for all sorts of reasons. It’s tempting to fall into the “It’s ‘cos my writing is bad,” trap, I’ve had my moments. Just don’t stay feeling that way!

  30. Maisey Yates Says:

    Jilly!! 😀

    Truer words were never spoken. 🙂


  31. Christine Carmichael Says:

    Hi Guys
    Found you on the ihearts page and dropped by. What a fantastic blog!! With great guidlines – no need to re-invent the wheel then!
    I thought I would give you an update on how we’re doing at the Angels-of-Romance critique group. We’ve all given and received feedback – the response has been positive, well received with plenty of ‘lightbulb’ moments. The passive narrative – every single one of us did it! Once it’s fixed, the writing improved substantially. Too many adverbs. We love them don’t we?
    The positive feedback has been received with amazement and shock – no one thought they were any good!! I tell you girls – there’s a lot of talent out there!
    Many thanks to the ‘Sacred Sisterhood” for your inspiration and guidance. You are the best.

    You’ve put up the link to Romance Angels, anyone looking for a group or critique can find help there. Thanks to Joanna for her hard work.

    I’ll end with one of my ‘boobs’ – I had a Heroine who walked into a room in flats and kicked off 4″ heels – now that’s what I call a miracle!.

    Best Wishes and a Merry Christmas to you all.


  32. waitingforthecall Says:

    Christine, I think it’s fabulous what you and the others on I Hearts are doing! Exciting to see, and I’m so glad to get a progress report.
    It is funny all those things we are just too close to our own writing to even see. Love th flats to heels thing! My Instant Sduction contest entry I had my hero do something the girls in my group pointed out was probably physically impossible (nothing exciting!). I had him sitting on the edge of his desk and doing something else at the same time. Sounded okay to me till they pointed it out and I tried to actually do it myself. Nope, just not possible!
    Anyway, good luck to you all and maybe next years comp we will be seeing names from your group and the other new crit groups up on the winners list!

  33. Joanna Terrero Says:

    Jane, this blog is awesome, so generous of you to share with us your experiences.

    I’m grateful to Christine for telling me about it.

    We are just beginning to interact in our group and so far it has been great.

    Thanks so much for posting the url to Romance Angels Network. I got the idea of creating a group just for networking, when I realized that the blog on Ihearts site would be buried eventually.

    Jane, can I please post some of your blog about the sisterhood on Romance Angels Network? (giving you proper credit of course.) Or if you have the time, maybe you can do it yourself. So others group members can benefit from your wisdom and experience.

    BTW, I just saw Gill’s chapter is up. Congrats girl, I will be reading it later, because now I have to do some work (bill must be paid lol).

    I hope you all have a very merry Christmas.

  34. waitingforthecall Says:

    Joanne, you are more than welcome to use anything here that you find useful. And I would love to post there- but I don’t make claim to any wisdom or experience- just a couple of rejections like everyone else!
    I think what everyone is doing is fab and the support can help so much. Writing, especially when friends and family not only don’t write, but don’t understand why we love romance and want to write for Harlequin (the “But why aren’t you trying to write a REAL book?” syndrome) can be a tough lonely business. Just having someone there who understands the terror of submitting and the sheer bloody awfulness of getting a rejection makes a huge difference.

    You have a treat in store with Jilly’s chapter! I loved it even more reading it again.

    Susanna’s is interesting reading, as I aimed for Presents with mine and I really wanted to see the winner there. She’s created an uncompromisingly Presents premise and a strong Alpha hero. Her Antonio makes my Luk look like a wimp!

  35. Joanna Terrero Says:

    Thanks Jane, I will be posting some of your tips for the others to read.

    Feel free to come by and collaborate with us. The place is like a communal WIP.

    I wish I had more time to do more, but right now I have to finish polishing a requested manuscript that I have to send to N.Y.

    I’d been playing around for too long, I better get my act together.

    I wish you a very merry Christmas.

  36. waitingforthecall Says:

    Oh, yay- requested manuscript! What line is it for?

  37. Joanna Terrero Says:

    I’m sorry, I just read your question.

    I’m one of the five winners of the Intrigue Editor’s Pitch. Mrs. Zaza was kind enough to request the full of my story. I’d been revising it, and I plan to send it the second week of January.

    I wrote more words than needed, I have to trim it and organized it. I’m glad I waited, because the members of my group are helping me with proofreading.

  38. waitingforthecall Says:

    Oh, that’s wonderful! Good luck with the full!

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